Riot in Newton

[radman]

Here is an account of a riot in Newton in 1498

riot1.JPG

riot2.JPG

I wonder what the chapel was called and where it was located. Could it have been an early St. Mary's I wonder.

[Steven Dowd]

I haven't ever seen a mention of a chapel this early, other than the mention of a chantry which is presumed to have been attached to a Hall.

There is still the missing Rokeden Chapel, maybe this is the one which is mentioned, but the location of that isn't known, though it is thought by some historians to have been somewhere in the Dene Valley, close by Dene School

I thought the Rok part of the name meant Rock, but I did read a few days ago that it meant Fog or Misty, Den or Dene is Valley, so the Church named Rokeden was the Church in the Misty Valley.

I will try to find the text.

Steven Dowd

[mike59]

Here is an extract from a topic which I think relates to the above subject that I posted some time back;

Rob Lane, it appears, was in the very early days known as Rake Lane, and Rake Lane is a corruption of the Anglo-Saxon “Roke Lane,” meaning “misty” lane. As far back as 1678 it was Robb Lane, as Mr. Cole’s investigations led him to an entry in the Manor Court records of that date which proclaimed the fact that it was the duty of the “inhabitants of Newton” to “repair the Com’on-way in Robb Lane,” In 1745 it was shown on the Estate map as a narrow lane leading to the Dene School, with a bridle way leading across the stream to Golborne.
There is plenty of evidence, however, that the lane was there long before that date, and, as Mr, Cole points out, the fact that is was there means the was some reason for its existence, and the reason probably was that at the period when the first chapel was built at Newton there may have been a small hamlet in the vicinity where the old school-house now stands.
Grounds for such deductions are found in the fact in the year 1343; William de Rokedene was a priest of the Chantry of Winwick. (a copy of the deed sealed with his seal can be seen in the Warrington Museum)
“By the name Rokedene” (I am quoting Mr. Cole), “it is evident that it is a place of some little importance, and it is noted that William was Chantry Priest at Rokedene in 1349.”
“‘Rokedene’ is comprised of two Saxon words, ‘Roke’ meaning misty or foggy and ‘dene,’ a hollow, and ‘misty hollow’ is even to-day a good description of the traditional site of the Chapel. Regarding ‘Roke’ we have Rob Lane, formerly known as Roke or Rake Lane; the brook running from Dean Dam to Newton Mere was known as Roke Lane Brook, and is so named on some of the ordnance survey maps, and the hollow, or valley through which it runs, is shown on one of the estate maps as ‘the Roke-dene.’
“With regard to Dene, we have at the present time in that neighbourhood Dean School, Dean Moor, Dean Dam, Dean Pits, etc., and there is no other spot in that neighbourhood which fulfils so well the ancient description implied by the name ‘Rokedene’; there is no other place where portions of this name survive to the present day, and although no trace of the original chapel is known to exist, there maybe some justification for the tradition that the site of the ancient chapel of Rokedene was in the valley of the Dene.
We know that in the year 1677 Dene School was erected by John Stirrup, and that there were houses in the valley.”

Mike

[bob]

I had some pictures of the old school house before it was renovated, i recall being suspicious of the stone work, it seemed to have been a mixture of styles, i wonder if the Legh family of Golborne Hall converted an old ruin into the school house,
also as Steve knows, When Jo the farmer showed us the rear of Dean Dam farm house, there seemed to be a very old wall there, i think little has been said about Golborne Hall, could it have at one time been a vast building with its own community around it? the walled garden seems a bit out of place too for a house that we know today,
in this old 1818 map there seems to be several houses depicted around the valley, ( i know Steve does not hold much store by these) but every where else is correct from Wiswall to the Bulls Head in the hollows, and crow lane to Newton Park,
and in the 1849 map below, the lonely Golborne hall seems to have too much around it for its size, even laid out trees and what looks like possible fish ponds for just a tiny house , and we still have not found the mill mentioned around mid 1300s,
albeit the M6 blasts it way through the area, i still think a round of golf with some geophys equipment may give some interesting results.
Bob

Golborne Park.jpg

golborne park2.jpg

[bob]

The 1843 OS map is no where near as precise as the later 1849, but i managed to do an overlay in GE,
i wont show you all the other bits yet, but on this little clip shows that at one stage the was a larger Strange shaped building
on the site, my point being, something of that size would probably have its own Chapel. and that could explain that large Walled garden and fishponds.
Bob

golf club.jpg

map section

1843 for overlay.jpg

[bob]

Here is a challenge for us budding researchers,
i have spent some time today and yesterday, trying to glean some history about Golborne park,
its like it never existed, i can not find anything about the Hall ! my impressions and gut feeling is that Thos P Leigh had the Hall in the 1700s, he was a big horse racing fan, so i suspect the size of the Hall i have overlaid, was most probably stables, if anyone comes across any info on this i will move this over to a new thread, as i seem to be hijacking this one.
Bob

[mike59]

I may have my Legh's mixed up Bob, but I thought it was Ashburnham Legh (Vicar) who had the Golbourne Park Estate, and was running it for one of his brother, Piers or Peter. Where does Thos P fit in?

Mike

[bob]

i have done a little research already, oops!!

bob

[mike59]

i have done a little research already, oops!!

bob

Is that it.. What did you find?

Mike

[bob]

What i meant was, i read this -
LEGH, Thomas Peter (?1754-97), of Golborne Park, Lancs.
ConstituencyDatesNEWTON1780 - 7 Aug. 1797Family and Education
b. ?1754, 1st s. of Rev. Ashburnham Legh of Golborne Park by Charlotte Elizabeth, da. of Sir Holland Egerton, 4th Bt., of Heaton, Lancs. educ. B.N.C. Oxf. 8 Feb. 1773, aged 18. unm. suc. fa. 1775; his uncle Peter Legh 1792.

Offices Held

Biography
Thomas Peter Legh’s attendance at the House was very bad, and he does not appear in any of the 14 division lists between 1780 and 1788. In March 1783 Robinson classed him as ‘doubtful’; in January 1784 ‘doubtful’ again, with the addition ‘some hope’. But in Stockdale’s list of 19 Mar. 1784 and in William Adam’s list of the new Parliament he is classed as Opposition, and his only recorded vote, on the Regency, 11 Feb. 1789, was with the Opposition. In 1783 he accepted a commission as ensign in the army, which involved his re-election. But he cannot be identified with certainty in the Army List, and his reasons for taking a commission are unknown.

He died 7 Aug. 1797.

now what i am trying to do is go back, and find out how and when Ashburnham got hold of Golborne park, was it through marriage or by his job.
Bob

[She]

Why dont you contact them and ask if we could have a tour of the house and course for historical reasons Bob?

Sec. 01925 228 525 secretary@haydockparkgc.co.uk

I have been around the course in an unofficial capacity and its a myriad of differing pathways, but would be fascinating to be there legally!

As a reminder, we have often suspected there was a settlement in this area so that isnt something new. As an area of pagan worship this ticks many boxes (they loved water and mist for their worshipping) and post Christianity it would not be uncommon that a pagan place of worship was turned into a Christian place of worship by the building of a Chapel.

Also if you recall Bob, we did find what appeared to be an old road directly under the fields leading up to this area.

Theres a book in Leigh library which refers to this place.

[bob]

Hi She,
the book in Leigh, is it in the Library or the research room in the Town Hall,
and what is it called, by who, i may pop inf or you,
* i was in Sherdley Park today with the g-kids, i took them to see a stone seat and stone crest, its about 45 years since i was last there, now i seem to remember with a date of 1800s on it, but it has 1697, my point being, things can get mixed up over time, i must do a bit of research on that, as that too had an Hall, the other point is, one needs to get out there and have a look at things for themselves.
Bob

[bob]

She, didn't notice this bit-

As a reminder, we have often suspected there was a settlement in this area so that isnt something new. As an area of pagan worship this ticks many boxes (they loved water and mist for their worshipping) and post Christianity it would not be uncommon that a pagan place of worship was turned into a Christian place of worship by the building of a Chapel.

Also if you recall Bob, we did find what appeared to be an old road directly under the fields leading up to this area.

yes i have been looking for Golborne Common, to be honest i think it was where Golborne park is today,
here are a few grabs of info about it - look for the enfencing bit.

These documents are held at Lancashire Record Office

Contents:
Bill of Sale: for £295: (i) John Pickmore of Warrington, grocer, & John Andrews late of Wigan now of Manchester, hatter (assignees of Jefferey Langshaw of Wigan, merchant, a Bankrupt), Thomas Claughton late of Haddock Lodge now of Golborne Park, esq, William Wareing of Ormskirk, gent (executor of James W. of Prescot, esq. decd), & John Fitchett of Warrington, gent., & (ii) John Haliburton of Preston, coal merchant -- a ship called the Ann of Preston, of one deck & one mast, length 60', breadth 14'5", height in hold 4'9", 54 tons, square sterned sloop, no gallery & no head --
Witn: George Whitley, jr., Richard Pemberton, Edward Barrow, John Sharples. Seals.

Contents:
Lease and Release: (i) Thomas Legh of Lyme co. Chester, esq., Thomas Claughton of Haydock Lodge, esq., Michael Knott of Coniston, esq., (ii) William Legh of Ratcliffe Hall, co. Leicester, esq., Rev. Peter Legh of Golborne Park, William Murray of Polmaise co. Stirling, esq., (iii) William Legh of Ratcliffe Hall co.Leic. and Mary Ann his wife, (iv) Alexander Murray of Edinburgh, esq., and Johnina his wife, (v) John Wilkinson of Christs College, Cambridge, (vi) James Kyrke of Glascoed co. Denbigh, esq., (vii) John Fitchett of Warrington -- land and other property in Upper Allithwaite, Broughton, Lindal and Grange, par Cartmel, Witherslack, Methopp par.Beetham co. Westmorland, Bradley, Bilston, Wednesfield, Wednesbury, Darlaston, Walsall, Moseley, Tipton, co.Stafford, Hadley, Wellington, co. Salop, Rotherhith, co. Surrey, Brymbo Mynera, Esclusham, Bersham, co. Denbigh, Guernafield, Buckley Mountain, Northop, Mold, Hope, co. Flint, in trust for sale.

Contents:
An account book for the farming out of cotton to be spun and woven in the area between Warrington and Golbourne for the years.
1801 - 1806.
Also rent accounts for the years 1893 - 1904.
Also loose in the book miscellaneous papers including bills, brief business letters, notices of taxation, receipts for payment of Taxes and for payment of rents, mainly the rent of Old and New Hey or Haigh Estates, in Newton and Oak Tree House leased by William Brown Brotherton to John Houghton, and for other payments. Also a printed advertisement of Manchester Races held 11-13 Jun. 1783. (47 papers).
1776-1812

Letter: Mrs. Ormerod, Golborne Park to M.H. [1] SH/244/5 5/7/1800
These documents are held at St Helens Local History and Archives Library

Thats about all i have found for now,
sorry the section dealing with enfencing is deep in a Pdf, i will dig it out later .
Bob

[radman]

I think that the racing on Golborne Common, would actually be on what is now called Golborne Heath.

No real evidence for this except that often heath land (which is very poor quality soil) was often the residual "common land" of the village.

look at the attached map and see how close it is to Haydock Park. (Golborne Heath Farm).

golborne.JPG

[She]

Bob, possibly Heath Lane at Golborne runs through this area, I may have a wander there.

Book is in Leigh library in the referance section. Its not about Golborne per se, but about the local area and it does have one chapter that talks all about Golborne Hall and the funny story about the musicians and the monkey. I posted the story on this site once, so do let me know if you want me to tell it again.
No idea who book was written by, but I think it was white. There are not that many books in Leigh Ref section about the local area so I am guessing would be easy to find again.

Here is your Thomas and what the heck is a rotton borough? Rude!

Thomas Claughton (c. August 1773 – 8 March 1842)[1] was a politician in England.

He was Member of Parliament (MP) for the rotten borough of Newton in Lancashire from 1818 until 1825.[1] His son Thomas Claughton became Bishop of St Albans while his grandson Gilbert Claughton was created a baronet in 1912.

I will answer my own question then....

A rotten, decayed, or pocket borough was a parliamentary borough or constituency in the United Kingdom that had a very small electorate and could be used by a patron to gain undue and unrepresentative influence within the Unreformed House of Commons.

A rotten borough was an election borough with a very tiny population, often small enough that voters could be personally bribed. These boroughs had often been assigned representation when they were large cities, but the borough boundaries were never updated as the town's population declined. For example, in the 12th century Old Sarum had been a busy cathedral city but was abandoned when Salisbury was founded nearby; despite this, Old Sarum retained its two members. Many such rotten boroughs were controlled by peers who gave the seats to their sons, other relations or friends; they had additional influence in Parliament because they held seats themselves in the House of Lords.

Pocket boroughs were boroughs that could effectively be controlled by a single person who owned most of the land in the borough. As there was no secret ballot at the time, the landowner could evict residents who did not vote for the person he wanted.

In the 19th century there were moves toward reform. This political movement was successful with the Reform Act 1832, which disfranchised the 57 rotten boroughs and redistributed representation in Parliament to new major population centres. The Ballot Act of 1872 enacted a secret ballot, making vote bribery impossible as the briber has no way of knowing how the person voted.